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Posted by: Oklahomans for Joe Lieberman ® 2003/11/14, 11:07:13 |
The Norman Transcript
11/12/03 By Sean Murphy Irene Davis doesn’t shy away from the fact that she’s a Republican. But that didn’t stop the Norman resident from joining about 100 people Tuesday at a meet-and-greet with U.S. Sen. and Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Lie-berman at a private residence in Norman. “I’m a Republican, but he’s one Democrat I could go for because he’s a centrist,” said Davis, who attended the event with her friend Tom Sorey. Following a breakfast with Oklahoma tribal leaders and Veterans’ Day events in Lawton and Oklahoma City, Lieberman wrapped up his visit to the Sooner State in Norman before returning to Washington, D.C., Tuesday night. The Connecticut Democrat criticized President Bush for giving tax breaks to the wealthy and for alienating himself from the centrist philosophy held by most Americans. “Though he (Bush) campaigned and promised to be a compassionate conservative and a centrist, this president has actually moved his government way over to the right, and he’s left most of America behind,” Lieberman said. Lieberman also said the economy and the foreign perception of America have suffered during Bush’s tenure, both of which make him vulnerable to losing the presidential election in 2004. “The economy is at the heart of it. As I’ve gone around this country, I’ve never seen as much fear of the future as I see and hear from the American people, and that’s very uncharacteristic for Americans,” Lieberman said. “Increasingly, people are be-ginning to feel that President Bush has made our standing in the world a lot worse than it ought to be, and that’s apart from any particular feelings about the war.” Lieberman said he would take back the tax cuts for wealthy Americans and use that money to stimulate the economy by investing in small business and educational opportunities for all Americans. “We can stimulate real growth and job creation by taking some of those tax cuts and giving them to small businesses to help those businesses create jobs and growth,” he said. “We can invest in innovation, and an enormous amount of those investments … really are through universities. It’s the ideas that come out of universities, when they meet up with capital, can create the new businesses and industries that can create thousands and thousands of new jobs.” Lieberman, who admitted to being a “ferocious fan” of the University of Connecticut basketball team, likely scored a few more points with the crowd by saying he has taken a liking to the University of Oklahoma football team. He even commented on OU’s recent 77-0 victory over Texas A&M. “I did think 77-0 was a little bit much … but I would actually like to take a few of those points and put them on my primary board,” Lieberman joked. Although most national polls have Lieberman trailing former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, Lieberman said his numbers remain consistently high and that voters will have the final say in the election. “In the national polling, I’m still running in the top tier — one, two or three. But the truth is, this is an undecided race,” he said. “That’s why we’re focusing now on the early primaries, because ultimately it’s the voters, not the pollsters, who are going to decide who’s the nominee.” Oklahoma has grabbed the attention of presidential candidates by moving up the date of its presidential primary election to Feb. 3, one week after the New Hampshire primaries. Lieberman said that makes Oklahoma a key state in determining the Democratic nominee. “Everybody in America has the power to change the future, but I think this year you in Oklahoma are going to have a little more power than people in a lot of other places because you’ve wisely chosen to move the primary up to (Feb. 3), one week after New Hampshire,” he said. OU President David Boren, who was in attendance Tuesday, attended Yale University with Lieberman and served with him in the U.S. Senate. Boren expressed his admiration for his former colleague and praised him for his integrity and values. “I said during our college years that Joe Lieberman was one of the finest people that I’ve ever met, and I can tell you that I still say that today, having watched him during the time that we had the great pleasure of serving together (in the U.S. Senate)….” “He truly struggled to find what he thought was the right thing to do, not for himself but for the country, and if he’s elected the president of the United States, I just want you to know there will never be a finer human being or a more honorable human being occupy the Oval Office than Joe Lieberman.” Robin Maril, an OU sophomore from Ponca City, attended the event Tuesday with a handful of fellow students and said she couldn’t pass up the opportunity to meet face-to-face with a presidential candidate. “I think we’re still in shock, actually,” Maril said. “I mean, how often do you get to see a presidential candidate? I don’t even think my parents have done that.” |
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Posted by: mattwatt ® 2003/11/14, 12:45:18 |
Of course... Lieberman is the most Republican of the group. I was for him in '00(not many choices), but I'm certainly not for him in '04. I still don't understand why he's in the top of the pack. |
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| Lieberman... | | ||
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Posted by: Marty ® 2003/11/14, 15:11:19 |
seems to have a reputation of being a very nice man and that, in itself, is something for which to be proud. He is also probably capable of being the president. Still, I am not comfortable with his politics. In my opinion, his ardent support of the war in Iraq shows very poor judgement on his part.
The whole thing has turned out to be a nightmare and Lieberman voted for this nightmare. Not all Americans were for this stupid aggression. I am voting for a candidate who had the sense to recognize that this nightmare had a predictable conclusion before it even started.
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| Lieberman should quit | | ||
| Re: Lieberman... -- Marty | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: OK Vet ® 2003/11/14, 16:08:11 |
"Iraq is a just war" What else does Lieberman believe? |
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| The fact of the matter | | ||
| Re: Lieberman should quit -- OK Vet | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Earl Kinghorn ® 2003/11/14, 19:51:15 |
...is that if Joe Lieberman wins the Democratic nomination for 2004 - Democrats will lose again. This would be somewhat like shooting yourself in the foot and while you're screaming in pain, you shoot yourself in the foot again. Joe Lieberman needs to do the right thing for America and withdraw from this race. |
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| I concur | | ||
| Re: The fact of the matter -- Earl Kinghorn | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: 2 of 5 ® 2003/11/14, 20:29:22 |
If Lieberman wins - Democrats lose. With his continued blind support for all things Israel, his "yes" vote on the last 9 Billion American tax-payers gave her earlier this year, his vote of support for the additional 19 Billion Israel is now demanding, and his subjugation of America to the whims and desires of another country - Lieberman, clearly, is not working in the best interests of Americans. He needs to pull out of this race. |
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| The darn truth | | ||
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Posted by: mattwatt ® 2003/11/14, 22:08:44 |
"Not all Americans were for this stupid aggression. I am voting for a candidate who had the sense to recognize that this nightmare had a predictable conclusion before it even started." That's probably said better than any way I've tried to explain it before... it seems about a year ago when I predicted we'd definately be going to war in Iraq because it was so plainly obvious Bush was going to do anything he could to justify it, and well of course, now we know he has. It was also so obvious that his little fairy tale post-war scenario was a farce. It's really so sad how those of us could see it coming so clearly, yet it continued to happen. Anyways, back to the topic. I agree that Lieberman would be a shot in the foot. It would be '00 all over again, except probably worse this time for democrats. It's about time we get a leader with some excitement and passion to put this country back on course. Lieberman, IMO, is not that guy. |
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| Take another look at lieberman | | ||
| Re: The darn truth -- mattwatt | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: stenley ® 2003/11/15, 17:32:57 |
I think its about time we elect a Democrat that can win. Sure other Democrats may excite activists like us more, but the bottom line is that the country is looking for someone they trust, someone that can lead and someone that can keep them safe. Joe Lieberman's has supported overthrowing Saddam Hussien for over 15 years. Granted, W lied to us about why he was going to war (which should be an impeachable offense!) but how can we as Americans sit back while a dictator violates the human rights of his people and works in tandem with Osama Bin Laden. (See the weekly standard article about this that just came out.) If our nominee is someone who did not vote for the war, or for the money to keep our troops safe, the GOP will pick that candidate apart with commercials and mail. If the American people are led to believe that the Democratic nominee can't keep them safe, W will be reelected. Take another look at Joe Lieberman and what he stands for and how a candidate like him will be welcomed by moderate voters across the country. I think you'll have a change of heart. |
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| Stenley, I understand your point. | | ||
| Re: Take another look at lieberman -- stenley | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Jo Ann ® 2003/11/15, 17:45:38 |
However, there is more to dislike about Lieberman than JUST his stance on the war. He also believes in faith based government. I agree that the people that us hard core dems like are not always the people that can beat Georgie Porgie. However, faith based government is a very very scare thought! |
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| The facts speak for themselves..... | | ||
| Re: Take another look at lieberman -- stenley | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Marty ® 2003/11/15, 19:19:10 |
Stenley, I very much respect your opinion and your right to speak it freely. The discussion of candidates is very important. Do a 'Search' and type in "Joe Lieberman's record". Many of the results show, in my opinion, that he is too far right for me. In your search, look for an article entitled "Joe Lieberman's
Anyway, it is worth the read and raises multiple questions about Lieberman. You said that, "If the American people are led to believe that the Democratic nominee can't keep them safe, W will be reelected." Surely the American people are smart enough to see that W is not keeping us safe now. We have lost credibility around the world and the
Consider just this week: American soldiers killed in Iraq; Bombings in Saudia Arabia; Bombings in Istanbul. It is all becoming a chain reaction. Bush is scrambling to get this all corrected by '04. I hope the violence stops, but I am not optimistic. I believe the world understood
Why would Americans feel there is much difference between Bush and Lieberman? He has pushed many of the same things as George W. After searching the Web for even more details about Lieberman's religious leanings, I am convinced that he could be almost as scary as Bush. |
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| Stenley | | ||
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Posted by: Earl Kinghorn ® 2003/11/15, 19:49:44 |
You make a couple of pretty good points but there is more to dislike about Lieberman than to like. Iraq was not a just war by anyone's standards. Period. Saddam was an evil, wicked, mean, and nasty man - no doubt. But the world is full of evil, wicked, mean, and nasty dictators and Iraq was probably somewhere around #10 on the list of threats to America. Way behind N. Korea, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and an entire list of others. But Iraq could have been a threat to Israel - and Lieberman would have taken America there anyway. Personally, I don't give a shit whether Israel stands or falls - she has been a drain on the American tax-payers since we created her in 1948. She has murdered American service men, spied on America, stolen top-secret documents from us and sold them to our enemies, and wreaked havoc on America's foriegn policy. She is also a Democracy in the Middle East - and in case you haven't been paying attention - it hasn't caught on. Especially with the terrorist activities of the Israeli government under Sharon's Likud Party. And with Lieberman's faith-based government approach to all things Israel, America would be in a state of perpetual war with the enemies of Israel for at least the duration of his Presidency. As for him being electable - he isn't. There is a reason the Gore/Lieberman ticket took so few states (any?) and it wasn't because of Al Gore, although some of Al's remarks didn't exactly help the cause. This is one thing you can take to the bank - if Lieberman wins the nomination, Democrats will lose again. There is no doubt about it. Clark is the candidate that stands in the middle ground with experience in foriegn policy and matters of state. He is also a master at economics with tremendous insight into the workings of government and business. He stands in the middle with slight left-leanings. As a 4-star General, he has hands-on knowledge of putting good people in the right positions. And above all the other candidates, he has devoted his entire life to the well-being of our country, going so far as to put his life where his beliefs are. Dean may be a little too far left, although I really like what he says, to reach mainstream America and there are inconsistencies in some of his statements. He has absolutely no foriegn policy experience and a middle of the road approach to defense. His campaign is built on dislike of George Bush. Is he electable? I'm not sure. Kerry spends too much of his time attacking his fellow Democrats for me to be comfortable with him although his being a Veteran gives him certain credibilty with the military vote. And believe me, the military vote is going to play a large part in the 2004 elections. And I can tell you this much - our Armed Forces aren't going to vote for Joe Lieberman. Frank & I have been spending far too much time listening to some of our peers on this issue lately and not one single service man or woman has indicated they would vote for Lieberman. Your devotion to Lieberman is admirable, though it is for a lost cause...sorry. America needs, and is looking for, a new direction - not simply a new President. Lieberman is simply George W. Bush with a "(D)" behind his name. If you lobby for Lieberman, you will have helped lose the election in 2004 - and the Democratic Party, and America, will be screwed for another 4 years. Get out more. Talk to people outside of Oklahoma. Visit other states and talk to people in them. Next time you are in a gathering start a political conversation and listen to what is said. Lieberman ain't the one my man, sorry. |
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| To Earl | | ||
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Posted by: stenley ® 2003/11/16, 19:49:35 |
Earl: Thanks for your respectful post. In it, you said: "Your devotion to Lieberman is admirable, though it is for a lost cause...sorry. America needs, and is looking for, a new direction - not simply a new President. Lieberman is simply George W. Bush with a "(D)" behind his name." This is an utter falsehood and I am constantly disapointed to read this anywhere. Did George W. Bush march with Dr. King in the 1960's for voting rights for African Americans? Did George W. Bush stand in the well of a state legislature and argue for equal rights for LGBT citizens in the mid 1970's when it was unheard of to do so? Did George W. Bush lead the fight to protect government workers during the Homeland Security reorganization? Did George W. Bush adamently oppose drilling in ANWR? Does George W. Bush have a 100 percent NARAL voting record? Has George W. Bush ever been called the country's greatest consumer watchdog for his work as Attorney General? Does George W. Bush call for the rollback of his tax cuts (before any other Democratic candidate for that matter)? Yes, Joe Lieberman voted for the war, but to say that he is simply George W. Bush with a D behind his name is a complete and utter falsehood. You're basing your opinion of Joe Lieberman on several votes despite a very socially progressive record.
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Posted by: Earl Kinghorn ® 2003/11/16, 20:40:57 |
...that I would call Lieberman "very socially progressive" but as I said earlier - you make some good points. But, in my mind, these are small points when compared to foreign policy that results in the deaths of hundreds (if not thousands) of Americans. This isn't to say that these are actually small points, just that, when compared to the world and the problems that face us at this moment in time - Lieberman isn't the one. His foreign policies are pretty much carbon copies of President Miserable Failure. The march with Dr. King is probably the most significant of the items you list - and for that I thank him for doing the right thing. The other items, while admirable, are miniscule compared to what we are facing at this point in time. And while I'm certainly glad that he is opposed to ANWAR drilling - people aren't dying there. In order of importance - we must first stop the needless deaths of Americans. Having said this, Lieberman still feels the war in Iraq is a just war. It isn't. It never was. And the Iraq war is going to be with the American public for decades to come. Sure, there will be the troop strength reduction in an attempt to bolster President Hump-a-Lump's poll ratings next year but the fuse has been lit. And this is one Genie we aren't going to be able to put back in the lamp. America needs new direction and Lieberman cannot supply us with that. His faith-based approach to government is simply too ideologically parallel to Bush and Sharon. Two key factors in '04 are going to be jobs and Iraq - more than just Iraq though will be the push by PNAC to continue the goals set forth in Clean Break. Sorry Stenley - Joe ain't the one. |
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Posted by: 2 of 5 ® 2003/11/15, 21:04:00 |
I think its about time we elect a Democrat that can win. I agree - but it isn't Joe Lieberman. Take another look at Joe Lieberman and what he stands for and how a candidate like him will be welcomed by moderate voters across the country. I think you'll have a change of heart. No - I won't. Marty is 100% correct on this issue - perhaps you should take another look at him. Voters are not going to welcome Lieberman. He isn't anywhere close to 'moderate' - he is a Republican in Democrat clothing that leans so far to the right on issues sometimes I think he is President Miserable Failure's parrot. Do as Marty has asked. Do an Internet search on his record and see what he has stood for in the past, not what he says he will do - but what he has done. |
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